A little more specific please.

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A little more specific please.

Postby Scotchmo » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:47 am

"Shooters are not allowed to use any extra personal equipment for ranging other than what they are allowed to shoot with. However, the hosting club may provide support fixtures accessible to all shooters for resting the gun while ranging."

1) we are allowed to have a bipod attached to the gun while shooting (in Open).

2) "forms of support while ranging is not (and is not intended to be) regulated"

3) Therefore, I can range find while resting the bipod. Yes or No?

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Re: A little more specific please.

Postby Leo Duran » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:30 am

Scotchmo wrote:"Shooters are not allowed to use any extra personal equipment for ranging other than what they are allowed to shoot with. However, the hosting club may provide support fixtures accessible to all shooters for resting the gun while ranging."

1) we are allowed to have a bipod attached to the gun while shooting (in Open).

You may have an attached bipod to rest your gun between lanes (as shown in that picture), but you may not use it as a form of support while shooting.
Using a bipod as a form of support while shooting is only allowed in Hunter class, but the bipod must be unattached.
Common Division Rules:
B. Other than using aids permitted by specific AAFTA Division Rules (slings, bipods, etc.), the gun must be supported solely by the shooter's hands and body. The gun may not contact the ground. Any part of the body directly supporting the gun may not rest on the ground. The body may not lean on, or be supported by any features other than the ground or the shooting seat.


Scotchmo wrote:2) "forms of support while ranging is not (and is not intended to be) regulated"

To be clear, that is a dated quote from a personal post on the FT Forum, and not a cut-paste from the Handbook. Moreover, it is taken out context.
In my experience, shooters have been able to lean their guns on stuff provided by the hosting club, or allowed to seat on their bum-bags while ranging at OFFHAND lanes, and I've never heard anyone say it was against the rules.

Scotchmo wrote:3) Therefore, I can range find while resting the bipod. Yes or No?

Yes in Hunter class (as long as it's an unattached bipod). No in any other class.
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Re: A little more specific please.

Postby Scotchmo » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:39 pm

Leo Duran wrote:You may have an attached bipod to rest your gun between lanes (as shown in that picture), but you may not use it as a form of support while shooting.
Using a bipod as a form of support while shooting is only allowed in Hunter class, but the bipod must be unattached.

I KNOW that I can use an attached bipod to rest my gun while NOT shooting.
I KNOW that I can't rest the gun on a bipod while shooting in Open.
I KNOW that Hunter Division allows unattached bipods while shooting.

But ,the question was if I can use it as a form of support while RANGING in Open, not while shooting.

Please give me a yes or no.

If NO, what parts of the gun are allowed to rest?

Can I rest it on the riser?

Can I rest it on the fore arm?

Please don't take this with any kind of tone. I need this cleared up because I have been resting it on the attached bipod in Open while ranging.

To be clear on that quote:
"forms of support while ranging is not (and is not intended to be) regulated"
That is a direct quote from David Slade as AAFTA BOG chairman in an email dated 05/31/2013 in response to a question if tripods could be used while ranging.
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Re: A little more specific please.

Postby Leo Duran » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:15 pm

Scotchmo wrote:I KNOW that I can use an attached bipod to rest my gun while NOT shooting.
I KNOW that I can't rest the gun on a bipod while shooting in Open.
I KNOW that Hunter Division allows unattached bipods while shooting.

But ,the question was if I can use it as a form of support while RANGING in Open, not while shooting.

No.

Scotchmo wrote:If NO, what parts of the gun are allowed to rest?
Can I rest it on the riser?
Can I rest it on the fore arm?

You may use any personal equipment allowed while shooting, and any shooting position.
You may also use support fixtures provided by the hosting club that are available to ALL shooters.

Scotchmo wrote: I have been resting it on the attached bipod in Open while ranging.

Well, stop doing that then. :)
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Re: A little more specific please.

Postby Scotchmo » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:24 am

Leo Duran wrote:
Scotchmo wrote:I KNOW that I can use an attached bipod to rest my gun while NOT shooting.
I KNOW that I can't rest the gun on a bipod while shooting in Open.
I KNOW that Hunter Division allows unattached bipods while shooting.

But ,the question was if I can use it as a form of support while RANGING in Open, not while shooting.

No. (Thank you, thank you, thank you - was that so hard?)
Scotchmo wrote:If NO, what parts of the gun are allowed to rest?
Can I rest it on the riser?
Can I rest it on the fore arm?

You may use any personal equipment allowed while shooting, and any shooting position. (I already know that )
You may also use support fixtures provided by the hosting club that are available to ALL shooters. (I already know that )
(neither response answers the specific questions)

Scotchmo wrote: I have been resting it on the attached bipod in Open while ranging.

Well, stop doing that then. :)(I will stop) :)

OK - one more time, specifically (while ranging):
Can I rest it on the riser? Yes or No
Can I rest it on the fore arm? Yes or No

I'll not be using anything else. Just looking through the scope at the target while prone or sitting with the riser or butt of the gun resting on a log or the ground. Before shooting, I will change to a legal "shooting" position.

Please answer yes or no. Then expound on that if you feel it's needed. But a Yes or No is usually what I'm looking for.

PS: It sounds like the intent IS to regulate support while ranging. That is different than what I was told by the BOG for the last two years. And that's fine.
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Re: A little more specific please.

Postby Leo Duran » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:53 am

Wow... don't you ever stop?... Without proper context I can't give a simple "Yes" or 'No'.
Scotchmo wrote:Can I rest it on the riser?

I really don't know what that means... Rest what? (the gun?)... what Riser? (I suppose a Knee-Riser?)... Rest where? (On the ground?)
Do you mean: Is it OK to rest the gun on the ground (knee-riser touching the ground) while ranging?
As long as you don't use 'extra' (not allowed) equipment as a form of support, you should be OK.

Scotchmo wrote:Can I rest it on the fore arm?

Again, I really don't know what that means... I assume you mean resting the gun on your forearm?
If so, you're certainly allowed to rest the gun on your forearm for shooting, so that would certainly be allowed while ranging.

Remember, there are no position restrictions while ranging, so you can be creative with your body and with allowed equipment.
It's actually all quite simple... And I know you're a smart guy... So maybe you're over thinking it?
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Re: A little more specific please.

Postby Scotchmo » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:28 am

Leo Duran wrote:Wow... don't you ever stop?... Without proper context I can't give a simple "Yes" or 'No'.
Scotchmo wrote:Can I rest it on the riser?

I really don't know what that means... Rest what? (the gun?)... what Riser? (I suppose a Knee-Riser?)... Rest where? (On the ground?)
Do you mean: Is it OK to rest the gun on the ground (knee-riser touching the ground) while ranging?
As long as you don't use 'extra' (not allowed) equipment as a form of support, you should be OK.

Scotchmo wrote:Can I rest it on the fore arm?

Again, I really don't know what that means... I assume you mean resting the gun on your forearm?
If so, you're certainly allowed to rest the gun on your forearm for shooting, so that would certainly be allowed while ranging.

Remember, there are no position restrictions while ranging, so you can be creative with your body and with allowed equipment.
It's actually all quite simple... And I know you're a smart guy... So maybe you're over thinking it?

I thought I added sufficient context to the question:
"I'll not be using anything else. Just looking through the scope at the target while prone or sitting with the riser or butt of the gun resting on a log or the ground. Before shooting, I will change to a legal "shooting" position."

You answered:
"Do you mean: Is it OK to rest the gun on the ground (knee-riser touching the ground) while ranging?"
My answer to that is yes - that is what I mean.

Your answer:
"As long as you don't use 'extra' (not allowed) equipment as a form of support, you should be OK."

I'm going to take that as a YES; that I can rest the gun on the ground while ranging. As long as it is the riser or fore stock that is touching the ground and not the attached bipod.
And no user provided stands of any kind while ranging. I'll have to make that clear to competitors at our big matches.

Leo,
I don't know why getting a straight answer has to feel like squeezing blood from a turnip.

But the discussion has finally paid off. Rather than try to reconcile the two, I'm going to ignore the earlier BOG statements and just go with your statements presented here for future AAFTA matches that our club hosts or that I compete in.

Thank you? :)
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Re: A little more specific please.

Postby rws45user » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:21 am

Scotchmo, I have found out very quickly Its hard to get a yes or no answer from the rule makers on this forum . If it's a yes answer your after they will say no and up and change the rules so their no answer will be correct . This happened to me on my very first yes or no question . And I have a bunch of questions because I'm new to FT and their is a lot of thing so far I have found I'm in need of a answer but I don't want to go through all that again :shock: . Would you break down in easy to under stand words about the resting of the gun on a object like the flip down rest you showed a video of , and is that bi pod unattached object in the video something you can use in hunter class and other class as well (while ranging)
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